Published Rules

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Bilko
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Published Rules

Postby Bilko » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:15 pm

During game play admins often ask the new players to read the Rules. If they use the !rules console command they get abbreviated versions of the Rules. In some cases that isn't enough info. So going to this website is necessary. Here, they find the rules on the Home page. I have two suggestions: 1. The website Rules should also be numbered like the console Rules. This way if a player is told they are breaking Rule #8 they can find it in more detail. 2. All the rules are not published !!. Many of them are referred to as "common sense" I think that causes confusion and they should be in both Rule lists. As an example, to avoid a bash I jumped. I was told that was against the rules. I know jump shooting was but never heard about avoiding a bash or even avoiding being shot. So I checked the published rules and guess what? NO rules on jumping..at all. That needs to be fixed so we can avoid less bickering during gameplay. The other Rule that is constantly an issue is getting off roofs with both flags - it's NOT in the published Rules. Many of the admins have all these Rules in their heads and it's time to get them in writing or drop them altogether. New players become problem players only because of this - lets fix this now.
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Re: Published Rules

Postby Afterburn » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:04 pm

Excellent post, all good points. we will fix this. Any type of run and guns tactics is against the rule here and really thought all knew this.
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Re: Published Rules

Postby Rokannon » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:11 pm

Bilko wrote:The other Rule that is constantly an issue is getting off roofs with both flags - it's NOT in the published Rules.


Agreed. This should be in the written rules.
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Re: Published Rules

Postby Afterburn » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:18 pm

The problem with rooftops on most maps is it provides a line of sight into spawn, therefore the shooting across the map into spawn happens. In some cases the rooftop may be directly center of a map, which breaks the camping center rule and not falling back.
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Bilko
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Re: Published Rules

Postby Bilko » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:03 pm

McLaren - I don't see you in the trenches with the rest of us daily players so I respectfully disagree.

I don't understand why these Rules can't be set in stone and published. These "Rules" are debated during games and I'm getting tired of it. IF you need to follow 20 Rules on this server to avoid reprimand by an admin they need to be in writing. I'm thinking about new players who happen upon DBTac. It's just not fair to expect they are mind readers. I have played for years and I didn't know I couldn't jump to avoid a bash. Why? - because it's not in the flipping rules that I have read 100 times.
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Re: Published Rules

Postby Private Tiger » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:21 am

Good post Bilko. I think you're right, enforcing rules that are not written down is a recipe for drama. I'm very relaxed with enforcing any of the none-written rules. As they're harder to enforce due it it not being officially stated. I don't think i'm alone there. But this adds to the issue as we then become inconsistent. If I encounter a jumper, I just take the death or the missed kill and move along to the next one without giving it a thought. It's certainly easier to follow and enforce if written.

Afterburn wrote:Excellent post, all good points. we will fix this. Any type of run and guns tactics is against the rule here and really thought all knew this.

I think the issue is many just consider whatever they are doing as a tactic. They don't box it off into tactical tactics vs run and good tactics. They're just doing what comes naturally to them or makes sense to them. Many people have been playing for 10+ years with essentially no rules and land in a tactical server with a lot to learn. I think if we assume that X is an obvious tactical rule is our shortfall - it is only obvious once you know :lol:

At the same time we have to be mindful of the server's position of staying relaxed and having fun. We don't want to choke the server with an onslaught of additional rules.

Afterburn wrote:The problem with rooftops on most maps is it provides a line of sight into spawn, therefore the shooting across the map into spawn happens. In some cases the rooftop may be directly center of a map, which breaks the camping center rule and not falling back.

I don't know if rooftops need adding. In some situations you could easily defend your flag from a roof top and no one really cares. For example you never see people complain if you're on the roof about 15feet away from the brit flag @ toujane. As long as that person is looking the correct way etc it's common for people to be there when the brits have both, and no one ever says "dont be on the roof when you have both" in that situation. There are many examples of this. Of course if you feel that needs to stop and think outright no rooftops is required then lets address that. But - I think the rules we have, as AB has point out already cover what the problem is; Spawn shooting, not falling back. Thus we can enforce rules better by not making it look like we are 'making up' rules. Instead of saying "no roof tops when you have both" just say... you didn't fall back, or your shooting spawn / shooting across the map etc. I don't believe the roof is the problem, the problem is already defined in our rules. A bit like "camping centre" which has popped up a few times, "centre" is not mentioned in our rules once, nor middle or any other synonym. Our rule is; camping across the map, spawn points, enemy base and choke points. in the language of saying 'dont camp centre' makes it look like we're just mad at being killed and making a rule up to suit ourselves.

Another one that pops up from time to time is running with the flag when under fire. I never do it, but some think the normal run rules apply and it's unclear. I'm not even sure myself! :roll: I've seen admins run with the flag. I've seen admins say you can't run with the flag. As I say, I don't do it, but it's easy to understand why a player might run if a nade lands at their feet and they follow normal 'running procedure' as no where says you cant.

So that's 3 we need to think about, hopping, roof tops and flag running. What are the other unwritten rules / points of clarity? Running to throw nades too? Capturing HQ's through walls? List them and we can chew them over in the admin area for a solution. I don't think we need to add a 'bunch more rules' but we could easily add one more rules, ie...
"Additional Tactical Play: No bunny hops to avoid being killed, no killing private tiger when he's not looking, no blah, no blah blah" we can easy 'tick them off' if we agree to do so within one 'capture all the rest' rule. Which will avoid us having a 100 page rule list but give us all more clarity as admins and players.
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McLaren
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Re: Published Rules

Postby McLaren » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:47 am

I really don't appreciate you deleting my post Bilko...

Deleted post “Re: Published Rules” written by “McLaren” for the following reason
» Bilko
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Bilko
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Re: Published Rules

Postby Bilko » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:21 pm

McLaren - Crap, very sorry. I have no idea how it happen. I also didn't know one could delete someone else's post - again, very sorry.
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Re: Published Rules

Postby Secret Agent Man » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:46 pm

Good discussion. I'd like to add my bit, something that Pvt Tiger touched on. OK that sounds wrong (Pvt Tiger touching my bit), but you get what I mean. Anyway . . .

I too let the Small Things go if they aren't habitual. What I've seen is that when a player gets called out for every little infraction, then that player tends to become a Complainer of other players, and the cycle perpetuates. Another thing I've noticed is that losing players tend to become more vocal in reporting infractions. Nothing can be done for the latter - Just human nature.

The finer bits:
-About the roofs: I agree with Tiger - Roof behavior is governed under falling back and camping spawn. No need for additional rule.
-Falling back - It irks me when opposing players start bleating "Fall back!" as soon as a flag is taken. I'd say give at least 5 seconds. Furthermore, there are players (cough, Afterburn, cough) who like to hide at the enemy post while holding the flag, so there's no need to fall back. I wish players will not complain fall back until they are positive about the flag situation.

Now can I get my Flammenwerfer back?
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Re: Published Rules

Postby HapKiDo » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:27 pm

Great posts and ideas by all , as far as jumping we forbid jump shooting which is good because a lot of pros can wear you out with very accurate jump shots, but we allow short run under fire or from nades , should be the same for attempted bash if it gets you out of the way imo including a jump,I'm not going to get bashed if i can help it, as far as falling back we ve always preached to go to the flag and assist the carrier where ever they are also incase they get killed to get the flag, either go to the flag or fall back to pin, my 1 and 1/2 cents . Again thanks McLaren and UK guys
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